My Response to Phil Johnson's E-Mail


After reading this blog with Phil Johnson’s email, I’d like to pose a few questions and make a few comments.

More than 3 years ago Pastor John Coleman and Dr. Robert Klenck stated on their radio show that John Macarthur’s The Guild and The Foundry were both ministries following the Purpose Driven model. Dr. Klenck, who is a foremost Christian expert on the Church Growth/ Purpose Driven Movement, stated on that radio show: “Not only is it [the Purpose Driven model] there [at Grace Community Church], but it is going at full speed.” Dr. Klenck made that comment after viewing the Guild and Foundry webpages (John Macarthur's singles ministries). Why would he make those comments publicly 3 years ago if it wasn’t true? Is he also a crackpot, lunatic, conspiracy theorist?

Once these ministries were publicly exposed for following the Purpose Driven model, their websites were largely DELETED! I counted 19 pages deleted from The Foundry website alone. The pages deleted were those which listed the numerous teams, groups, and buzzwords for the Purpose Driven model. Why did the leaders at Grace Church delete these pages?

I’ve been told by an employee of Grace To You that these pages were deleted due to “normal website maintenance.” This isn’t believable. Since when are 19 pages deleted from a website (a few weeks after that ministry was publicly exposed) and never returned to that website due to “normal maintenance?”

I personally sent those deleted webpages to James Sundquist, a man who can easily recognize the Purpose Driven model because he authored “Who’s Driving the Purpose Driven Church?” After viewing those deleted webpages Mr. Sundquist stated to me in an email: "I do see many transformation philosophies that echo Rick Warren or hybrid it..." Why would he make this statement? Is he also a crackpot and a conspiracy theorist?

When I’ve told some at Grace Church about James Sundquist’s statement, they have replied that Sundquist’s statement should be dismissed because he is just bitter because apparently John Macarthur wouldn’t endorse his book (or something to that effect). This reasoning is nonsensical. James Sunquist stated that John Macarthur’s ministries were copying Rick Warren because the evidence showed this. Some at Grace Church also refer to Mr. Sundquist as a being “conspiratorial.”

The pastor of the Purpose Driven Foundry ministry was Kurt Gebhards. Mr. Gebhards has now placed his resume online. In that resume under “Ministry Passions” is the following most remarkable admission: “I HAVE BEEN ASKED ON THREE OCCASIONS BY THE LEADERS OF GCC TO COME INTO A MINISTRY AND BE AN AGENT OF CHANGE…IN EACH OF THESE CASES THAT CHANGE HAS INCLUDED CASTING A FRESH VISION, DEFINING A NEW MINISTRY CULTURE AND PROMOTE [SIC] POSITIVE CHANGE.”

So there it is right from the horse’s mouth. GCC leaders (John Macarthur) asked Gebhards on 3 occasions to enter their ministries to be a “vision casting” (which taps into the occult world) “agent of change” (change agent, facilitator). All ministers following the Purpose Driven model are Change Agents (aka Facilitators). At GCC they are now called “Discussion leaders” (check out Macarthur’s Men’s Ministry which has 26 “Discussion Leaders.”)

Now given that the Word of God states that God changes not, why would the GCC leaders want to bring change agents into GCC? Gebhards answers this question in his online resume. He was asked to enter GCC by their leadership to “cast a vision for a brand new ministry” (vision casting isn’t biblical it’s from Purpose Driven), “to implement new concepts” (what’s wrong with the “concepts” put forth by our Lord Jesus Christ?), “defining a new ministry culture”, and “promoting positive change.” These are all buzzwords and slogans for the Purpose Driven model. It should be clear to all with common sense that Gebhards wasn’t asked to enter ministries at GCC to establish a biblical model. Gebhards admits he is AN AGENT OF CHANGE (agent for Satan).

Also, these admissions by Gebhards finally dispels the notion that the Purpose Driven model and Rick Warren’s anti-Christ agenda entered GCC “by men who crept in unawares”; for Gebhards proudly revealed the awful truth: THE GCC LEADERS [JOHN MACARTHUR] ASKED GEBHARDS TO ENTER MINISTRIES AT GCC TO “BE AN AGENT OF CHANGE.” This proves that these same GCC leaders are agents for Satan and enemies of God and Christ.

Kurt Gebhards now pastors what I would describe as being a Purpose Driven/church growth hybrid church in North Carolina called Hickory Community Chapel. His co-pastor (the only other pastor I see in the church), Scott Jablonski, is fully on board with Rick Warren’s Purpose Driven agenda. “Pastor” Jablonski sent me the following email:

“I do know about Kurt’s [Gebhards] ministry at Grace, as well as Rick Warren. I have been a fan and proponent of Purpose Driven Life and Purpose Driven Church, two books which Warren has written. I also follow much of the wisdom of Doug Fields, his [Warren's] youth pastor. I believe small groups is the best place “to do life” together with other believers. It is a great way to connect and be held accountable, both of which God commands for believers to do. Anyway I hope you have a great week. In Christ, Scott Jablonski–Hickory Community Chapel–Pastor of Student Ministry.”

After I told Pastor Jablonski that I would like to warn the true Christians in his church about their “church growth agenda” I received the following reply from him:

“…As one of the pastors and overseers of the church, I am demanding that you not contact anyone in our body. Jesus spoke of false teachers in Matthew 7:15 and I believe you to be one of those. As a false teacher, who tries to lead someone astray, I will deal harshly. I don’t mind discussing theology and methodology with you. However I am called to protect our flock from heresy. If anyone has been duped, it has been you. I have studied PDC for over 15 years, even before it became a movement. So if you want to sit and argue sometime, great. However if you choose to continue “to warn” our body and cause factions, I will come against you with all authority that God has given me. The apostle Paul spoke against such false teachers throughout his letters. Philippians 1:3-7, he spoke to church leaders to command men not to teach false doctrines or devoting themselves to myths. So again, I am not asking you, but telling you not to contact anyone in our body. Needless to say, my communication after this email will stop. However I will be involving our church elders. In Christ, Scott Jablonski–Hickory Community Chapel–Pastor to Students.”

Pastor Jablonski insists that I not speak to anybody – not a request, but a demand. Totally communistic, with thinly-veiled threats – “I will deal harshly,” and demands that I not exercise my right of free speech. A little Hitler! If he was teaching truth, then he would have the confidence in it that it could withstand, and prevail over false teaching. Pastor Jablonski doesn’t know Christ. Christ says in Romans 12:19 -”Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.”

It’s amazing that this supposed Christian pastor has been studying the PDC for 15 years without discerning its heresy. The last thing that is most telling is that he is insisting that I not speak to anybody in “our body.” The church is Christ’s, not his. The arrogance is amazing, and the fact that he can never dispute any of my findings with the Word of God, but just resorts to threats proves that he does not know God. His so-called “power” comes from Satan, not from God.

I could go on about the fact that Kurt Gebhards’ new church, Hickory Community Chapel, is a Harvest Bible Fellowship church plant. And that the Harvest Bible Fellowship consists of more that 40 churches on board with the “church growth” model. Who directs these 40+ Harvest Bible Fellowship “churches”? Bill Molinari, who sits on the board of John Macarthur’s international ministry, The Masters Academy International, which is now partnering with foreign governments which is also part of Rick Warren’s communitarian agenda.

To learn more about how John Macarthur is on board with Rick Warren’s agenda and about how the church growth movement has infiltrated and transitioned Grace Church go to or

Bob Johnson